— from an interview from a recent issue of Dance Notes.
 
Louis van Amstel Knows Exactly What He Wants

Louis van Amstel has taken the United States by storm! He and his partner, Karyna Smirnoff, defeated Bill Sparks and Kimberley Mitchell to become our new United States Latin American Champions. At the United States Dance Sport Championship, held in Miami during Labor Day week, Louis, (who is originally from Holland), and Karyna, (who is originally from the Ukraine), won all five dances! Dance Notes was thrilled to have the opportunity to speak with Louis earlier this year before he won the title. We had planned on meeting Louis at Dance New York, a popular studio in New York City, to conduct our interview. But on the scheduled day, Louis was taken ill, cancelled his lessons and was not well enough to leave his apartment. Not wanting to disappoint us, Louis invited us to his apartment to speak with him! Even with all the confidence he portrays on the dance floor, Louis is still quite humble, personable and very… well, human!

How did you get started dancing?

My parents sent me when I was ten years old. They said it was part of my education, part of my growing up. I liked it so much that I forgot it was for my education.

So you liked it right away?

Yes, I knew right away that it would be my life. I knew it would be my profession. I started dancing late. I never did juvenile when I was six or seven years old like most kids. I think I was twelve when I did my first competition… and it was broadcast on national television. I really liked the competition. So after that my progress went really fast. It's completely different than here [in the U.S.]. Within our amateur division we have seven classes, and it usually takes three or four years to get to the highest class. I went through it in one and a half years in standard and Latin. I did both at the same time. By the time I was fifteen I was in the highest class.

Did you always like Latin the best?

No, my partners liked Latin. With Julie Fryer I had my biggest success. We won three world titles and a European title. We also made the finals in the World Ten Dance Championship. I love the standard just as much as the Latin. The only thing I don't like about the standard is those bloody costumes! There's no freedom to move and I don't like the look of it. But I love the style and I teach it as well as the Latin. A lot of people in the states don't know that, but I've worked with Nick Kosovich and Katarina Marks and Clive Phillips and Karen McDonald.

What were your titles when you danced with Julie Fryer?

In 1994 and 1995 we were World Amateur Latin Champions and in 1996 Professional World Showdance Champions. I turned pro in 1995 after the International. We wanted to win the Grand Slam so we waited until after we won the International. The Dutch Open in 1995 was our first pro comp. That year we made the final in the worlds and the final in paso at Blackpool. Normally an amateur couple turning pro does not do that the first year.

Did you expect to make the final at the World Championship in Miami your first year as a pro?

There was a spot open in the final, but there was another couple that had been there for so many years. Julie and I and Ruud (my coach, Ruud Vermeij) were so professional. We went there a week before and practiced every single day, morning and night. We went to that comp so "into" the dancing that we had faith in ourselves. I can't even explain what I was thinking at the time. I just know that we exploded when we did make the final. Also, Donnie Burns and Gaynor Fairweather were competing in their last comp and it was our first final. So it was quite nice that we were in that final.

How did you get started with Karyna?

It's like a soap series! We were both in Blackpool in 1999. She placed second in the Latin with Paul Killick and I danced with my old partner from eleven years ago. We only danced two months together because it didn't work out at all. I decided that I wanted to split up after the comp. I had heard that Paul Killick was going to split up with Karyna. I used to teach Karyna when she was dancing with her amateur partner so I knew her inside out. I had wanted to dance with her then, but since I was her teacher I couldn't split up my own couple to dance with her. At Blackpool I couldn't go to Karyna and talk to her about dancing with me because nobody knew that Paul was going to break up with her. And in Blackpool it's gossip, gossip, gossip! We had to be very discreet. I was sitting with my coach Ruud Vermeij and some Dutch friends and my best friend Nina [Katarina Marks]. Karyna went to the restroom. So I sent Nina to the toilet to talk with her. Nina didn't come back for ten minutes! So we sent another girl in to see what was happening! Apparently, Karyna was talking to somebody else, so Nina was doing her lips the whole time waiting to get Karyna alone. Later, Karyna told us she was wondering why Nina was doing her lips for so long! Nina finally talked to Karyna in the toilet. We set a meeting for eleven o'clock Friday morning in the basement of our hotel so that no one could see us. We were supposed to have a tryout and Ruud Vermeij was going to watch us. We waited for an hour and she didn't show up. Later that night she told us what had happened. Paul wanted to go to dinner at the same time we were supposed to have the tryout. And she couldn't say she couldn't go to dinner with him. So then she and Paul decided they were going to stay together and work things out. I could see why from her point of view... she was second in Blackpool. There's only one spot and she would be the champion. Then, a few days before I received my green card, Karyna called me and said that she and Paul had split. On the seventh of July I met with Karyna and we started dancing. It really was a soap series! A lot of people were involved, and a lot of people tried to stop it.

What makes your partnership special?

I think there are many reasons. I think she's a beautiful woman with a beautiful body. She just has to stand up and people look at her. Also we're the youngest one in the final. That gives us a kind of confidence. She's bloody quick and very intelligent. She just graduated from the university this past year. She has the intelligence and I have the experience. I've studied a lot. She has a lot to learn but she's quickly learning. I feel I can be creative and explain things to her that she's never heard of. We have a good combination. At first it didn't go well. It took about eight months. We got to the point where we decided we either stop dancing or we make it work. We decided we would make it work, and now it's going great. We both know what we want and sometimes that clashes very much. Now it's sort of merging so what we want is more one thing. I've never had that before. If one partner knows what they want and the other one doesn't then the one that does know feels like he's doing it on his own. And the other one feels left behind. I don't believe in lead and follow. I don't believe that I'm taking care of the lead. We do this together. It's fifty-fifty. It's her business and my business.

Where are you and Karyna from?

I'm from Amsterdam. Karyna is from a little city near Kiev.

Why did you decide to compete for the United States?

When I came here for the first time in 1993 with my Slovenian partner Katja Klep, I said, "Someday I'll be here. I don't know when but someday I will be living here." I love the States, but New York is just a special city. It has everything I want. It has peace. People say there is no peace. But I feel even if I'm walking in Times Square, there is so much peace… all the lights and freedom you have. To me that's peace and that's rest. When I came here in 1993, I told Nina I would like to stay for a year. At the time she owned a studio so I came here under her auspicion and taught at her school. Then I moved here in 1997. The thought of dancing for America didn't come up until I thought of dancing with Karyna. I thought, "I have my green card. I've been living here. I've been coaching here training American couples for the last few years and Karyna is now American." So we decided to dance for America. When I first started dancing in Holland, the people there were very skeptical. After I won the World Championship, then they supported me. America was just the opposite. Even if you're nothing now, if they see you have the opportunity and the talent they will go for you. That's what I like about this country. In Europe they say that America is the land of opportunity, and it is in every way. It's not just the money making. People go for your ideas. They went for the dance company that we started. Of course there were jealous people who tried to stop it. They were afraid we would be successful.

Do you feel that the American people are behind you?

Absolutely, yes! I think people are happy inside because now an American couple can become World Champion.

What do you think is important for the United States to compete at the world level?

Something major has to change. Of course the system worldwide is so political, and so much about money. So many people make money with this system. It's very complicated. A lot of teachers don't really teach; they just work on the surface. They just teach because they need to make the money. But from a dancer's point of view there's nobody cooperating. The coaches create confusion in the couples' minds. Even some of the organizations create confusion. As an example, at the moment (which I find ridiculous) the Fred Astaire organization and their teachers teach quick, quick, slow in American rumba and the Arthur Murray chain and their teachers dance slow, quick, quick. So what am I going to judge if I'm judging? Say we have seventeen judges at a competition and the majority of them are from one particular chain. Does that mean that that couples from the other chain are off time??? It's a simple example, but there are many things like that that need to be standardized. I'm a dancer and I want the dancing to come first, but here I think commerce comes first. It should be a combination of both. Everyone should do their own jobs and let the dancers do theirs. And the judges judge the dancing. A few years ago I was working with Jose DeCamps and Jami Josephson on American rhythm. We sat down and talked about, "What is rumba? What is mambo?" We finally figured out what we wanted; then I said, "Let's sell it, let's make it clear," so there would be a standard that all the dancers could follow. We were well on our way… then they split up! Now what?

Why did you decide to get out of the ballroom world for a while?

It wasn't enough. I've been competing for sixteen years. After being World Champion I realized there was more… more than just winning. I've had the experience of theatre for many years, and I feel that creating without having to compete is so wonderful. And I feel the appreciation from the audience is much more sincere, because it's not yelling at you to win. It's giving you appreciation for what you have done. In competitions the dancers have no control over the music, lighting, floors, surroundings. But in theatre you have control over those things so you can really create a production. The performing arts consist of three things: acting, singing, and dancing. I had danced so much and acted some and I had one singing lesson. So I decided that I wanted to do all three. I wanted to explore and learn more. I still want to eventually transform ballroom dancing into theatre so dancers that come into this business can have a choice -- whether they want to compete or go for Broadway. But now we have no choice. I'm from a country that is very liberal, and I'm a person who loves freedom. As long as I have a choice then I'm happy. But if I have no choice then I have to create something so I do have a choice. I like to compete now, but later I might want to do something else.

Did you always know you were going to come back to competing?

A lot of people say that I don't know what I want. I know exactly what I want. But sometimes I don't know how to get there. My singing teacher told me, "You do know what you want. You just don't know how to get there until you're in there." People just want you to make a decision and only do that. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite. I don't think that way. I thought I wanted to step out of it completely and totally get into singing and acting for four or five years, then make the transition into Broadway. But then I realized my dancing would get behind because for four years I wouldn't be dancing. And I missed performing. So I thought I could still dance and do the singing and acting. Every lesson we do now with Vicki Regan is built on acting. We're acting when we're dancing and I'm actually combining both. I still have singing lessons two or three times a week. It all just merged into one. But again tomorrow might be different.

If you could say in just a few sentences what you want what would it be?

Ballroom dancing through theatre. Since 1997 I've had this dream of putting ballroom dancing into theatre. Not just Broadway but a world tour, like Cirque du Soleil. They have a show in Las Vegas, a European tour and an Asian tour. Riverdance does the same thing. That's what I want to do -- get ballroom dancing on the billboards nationally and worldwide.

Who has influenced you the most in your dancing?

As a teacher, Ruud Vermeij. He has opened my mind to a lot of things. He has given me the biggest portion of my learning. If I don't learn anything anymore I have enough to survive the rest of my life. In general and in life, for what I want now, I think Barbara Streisand is a great example. I've read her autobiography. I see a lot of resemblance in her past and my past. It's given me confidence. She made it, so why wouldn't I get what I want? She's world famous. I don't have to be world famous. But when you look at her life… she had a bad youth, Madonna had a bad youth and so did Jackson. And my younger years weren't all that great. So they influence me a lot.

How would you like to leave your mark on the dance world?

In the dance business I think the sharing. That dancing should come from the inside. Once you achieve that it has such a big effect in your soul in your life. You feel good and you feel happy. When you have that kind of aesthetic experience it goes both ways. Because you're doing it from the inside, the thousands of people who are looking at you walk out with a big smile, and when they talk about you it's in a positive way. You just feel great. It's something you can't explain. You go home and you have great sex or the greatest hamburger of your life. I don't see that in the competition world. It's all about relief that we made the final or relief that we got the title. I find that so negative. We should be feeling, "That felt great," and never mind the result. That's why I like theatre so much, because if you've danced great you don't have to worry that you didn't get the result you wanted or that you've failed. If you have a great experience inside don't put your faith in the judges. Don't put your faith in your teacher. Do it from the inside.

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